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Author Topic: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..  (Read 24984 times)

nagtrainer

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Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« on: April 21, 2015, 10:24:39 PM »

Lets begin this with some basic Specs for our beloved Zuk engine. I pulled these specs from TopLine, Elgin, Ferrea, and Teamswifts web site. Elgin seems to be the most friendly when it comes to getting specs. Here is their link.http://catalog.elginind.com/app/Engine.asp?mfg=SUZUKI

1.3 G13BA 1298cc SOHC 8V
Bore x Stroke 74mm x 75.5mm
Compression Ratio 9.5:1
Cylinder Block Deck Height 186.8mm
Deck Clearance 0.2mm (above)
Cylinder Head Volume 32.2cc
Head Gasket Thickness (compressed) 1.2mm
Minimum Combustion Chamber Volume 38.2cc
Intake Valve O.D. 36mm
Exhaust Valve O.D. 30mm
Connecting Rod Length (between centers) 120mm
Piston Comp Height 28.90mm
Piston Clearance & Position (from Crown) 0.200 @ 45.80

1.3 G13A 1324cc SOHC 8V
Bore x Stroke 74mm x 77mm
Compression Ratio 8.9:1
Cylinder Block Deck Height 186.8mm
Cylinder Head Volume 32.2cc
Head Gasket Thickness (compressed) 1.2mm
Intake Valve O.D. 36mm
Exhaust Valve O.D. 30mm

1.3 G13B 1298cc DOHC 16V
Bore x Stroke 74mm x 75.5mm
Compression Ratio 10.1:1 (11.1:1 in the import cultus gti)
Cylinder Block Deck Height 186.8mm
Cylinder Head Volume 50.46cc  measured mine
Head Gasket Thickness (compressed) 1.2mm
Intake Valve O.D. 29.1mm X 5.45 X 105.35 1R
Exhaust Valve O.D. 24.9mm X 5.47 X 104.65

1.3 G13BB SOHC 16V
Bore and Stroke 74mm X 75.5MM
Compression ratio 9.5:1
Deck Hieght 186.8mm
Cylinder head volume 46.67cc measured mine
Head gasket thickness Compressed 1.2mm +/- .02mm
Intake Valve O.D. 29.1mm x 5.47mm X 92.2mm
Exhaust Valve 24.9mm X 5.445mm X 79.93mm

1.6 G16A 1590cc SOHC 8V
Bore x Stroke 75mm x 90mm
Compression Ratio 8.9:1
Cylinder Block Deck Height 213.8mm
Deck Clearance 0.9mm (below)
Cylinder Head Volume 32.2cc
Head Gasket Thickness (compressed) 1.2mm
Minimum Combustion Chamber Volume 50.6cc
Intake Valve O.D. 36.6mm
Exhaust Valve O.D. 32.5mm
Connecting Rod Length (between centers) 139.6mm
Piston Comp Height 28.10mm
Piston Clearance & Position (from Crown) 0.200 @ 48.00

1.6 G16B 1590cc SOHC 16V
Bore x Stroke 75mm x 90mm
Compression Ratio 9.5:1
Cylinder Block Deck Height 213.8mm
Deck Clearance 0.9mm (below)
Cylinder Head Volume 46.67cc  Same basic head as a G13BB
Head Gasket Thickness (compressed) 1.2mm
Minimum Combustion Chamber Volume 46.8cc
Intake Valve O.D. 29.2mm X 5.47mm X 92.2mm
Exhaust Valve O.D. 25.0mm X 5.445mm X 79.93mm
Connecting Rod Length (between centers) 139.6mm
Piston Comp Height 28.55mm
Piston Clearance & Position (from Crown) 0.300 @ 53.00

This is just the start of the quest to have the most fact filled data sheet for Zuks. If anyone has a question feel free to ask. I have Alldata, and Zuk FSM as reference. I also have a multitude of catalogs for automotive machining to search for the answer through.

Remember this is for Zuks, and Zuk Hybrid engines only. If you have a turbo question I must refer you to Jarred and the turbo section for the answer.
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nagtrainer

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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2015, 10:55:42 PM »

Now lets start at the bottom and work our way to the top of the engine. Honda engines and Zuk engines are real similar, except Zuks were first, and Honda runs backwards. Chamfer the oil holes the other way and it will work well in a Zuk.

I copied this from TeamSwift

G13/16 - 84mm bore spacings

deck height (block height)--------------
Suzuki G16 = 213.8mm
Head gasket height=1.2mm
Deck Clearane below= 0.9mm
Suzuki G13 = 187mm
Honda D16 = 212mm
Daihatsu HD = 210mm
Daihatsu HC = 200mm
Daihatsu HD-E = 212mm

Main journal diameters---------------
G16a/b = 52mm
rod BE bore 1.851 inches / 47.0154 mm
Daihatsu HD-E = 50mm
Honda d16 = 55mm

Crankpin diameters-------------------
Suzuki G16a/b = 44mm
Daihatsu sohc 16v = 45mm
HOnda D16 = 45mm

The big difference, machining wise, is the thrust bearing placement. other wise it fits right in including the oil pump. The only other issue is the harmonic balancer is unique to the Honda, and the flywheel bolt are substantially larger and stronger than a Zuk but a Honda Fly will fit in a Zuk bell housing as well as the clutch pressure plate.

So basically with little machining the D15 crank will fit in the G13 block, and same for the D16 crank in the G16 block. Now I've never seen a 1.6 crank let go, and the only reason I can see someone wanting one is if they intend to use the extra rotating weight for more applied torque. 27Lbs Vs 20Lbs for the Zuk. The reason to go with the D15 crank would be the 84mm stroke vs the 77 or 75 mm in the Zuk and it's forged. Only the G13B/K DOHC is Forged.

When it comes to connecting rods, there is all sorts of options. From titanium Crower rods, Cromo H beams, Pauter Hammer forged, to stock 4Age, Nissan E15's and then the basic Stock Zuk rods.

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nagtrainer

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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2015, 12:10:50 AM »

It's getting late, but here are some specs in standard and metric for stock connecting rods and the engines they come out of. What I've seen the Yota 4Age rods are probably the best for junkyard super beast rods and to get them re bushed for zuk pin is not to expensive. the local shop here does them for 20 dollars a rod +bronze bushings.

Mfg.     Engine        c-c in/mm      BE Dia in/mm        BE width in/mm       SE Dia in/mm     SE width in/mm

Suzuki G1.3a/b     4.7200/119.89   1.772/45.01        0.8610/21.87       0.7480/19.00      0.8610/21.87
Toyota 4Age         4.8000/121.92   1.7721/45.01   0.8560/21.74       0.7875/20.00      0.8560/21.74
Suzuki G16a/b      5.4950/139.57   1.8509/47.01   0.8610/21.87       0.7480/19.00      0.8610/21.87
Nissan E15t         5.2360/132.99   1.8900/48.01   0.9520/24.18       0.7480/19.00      0.9520/24.18

Now remember these are stock rods, and a little machining will be necessary to fit them but the cost is less than buying after market ones and depending on application. I am referring to the Nissan and Yota rods but for junkyard parts the strength they have is better. The yota's are almost a direct drop in. Here is a good side by side comparison for you.




Nissan E15 comparison


You can see some beefiness and notice the bronze bushing? Zuk rods don't actually have those..


After market depends on your budget.
You can get a set of Billet off E-bag, or from a dealer like Spoon, or SRD (Suzuki Racing Development). They are a good rods but still Chicom. E-Bay can run $275 delivered, I picked up a set from the supplier for SRD for $245.00. SRD wants 700 I think, and Spoon is around 500, but like I said they come from the same supplier in China.

If you want American Made Billet well Brian Crower has the 4Age Rods which fit nicely on a 1.3. Part Number BC6354 or BC6355 for 449. on sale normally 516.
And Pauter Rods have the actual Zuk rods in an I beam or Cross beam for $984.00 I have the part number if you want them... LOL.. Both are made right in San Diego County. Also if you really want to go mega exotic, well then Brian's uncle Bruce Crower sells a set of Titanium rods for 2600 to 3800 dollars for the set. But that to me is unimaginable for a Samurai or a Kick.. Maybe for a Honda Killing Geo Metro.. And according to Bruce you can get a Zuk crank of any stroke made from titanium for a mere 9-10k..

 
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nagtrainer

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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2015, 12:31:25 AM »

Pistons for a Zuk engine..

Well depends on what you want to do.. are you looking for a turbo application? pump gas? Propane/CNG? Race Fuel? E85? I found a whole slue of different pistons and combination of to fit 1.3 and 1.6. For a basic engine (stock but better) Flat tops work and are easy to get for an 8V engine.

But for those who want to know whats what you need to look at several factors besides bore diameter. Bore is the biggy but you must know what the compression height is, as well as valve reliefs, pin Diameter, Pin height, Dome volume, etc. That's why if you ask MY (and most others) Flat top in a 8V is the best solution for power gains. Turbo Dish is the best option in my opinion, but I have seen flat top engines boosted, that just narrows the oops factor a whole bunch.

Now the 16V engine is a completely different ball game. I have a list of pistons and there specs I will post up in the AM. For now though, Factory Flat tops for a 1.6 are NLA.. and the DOHC that come with a Flat top is Also NLA in over size from Suzuki. Napa though if you need to run flat tops in a 1.6 or a 1.3 SOHC or DOHC 16V can still get generic OE type replacements. for Flats in a 1.6 Cant bore them out, run it like it is and use the 1.3 flat tops with a 1mm over size and it will fit. Other than that, well you need to move to a Honda, or Motorcycle piston to get the flat tops or Dome pistons.
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nagtrainer

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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2015, 08:14:42 AM »

I am not sure of all these specs for the hardware, I took them from the FSM and I measured them of the engine I have. you can use these to match up hardware from any source..

From my note at the shop:
Head Bolts
Quantity: 10
Size M10-1.5 X 95
Head: 10mm AF, 12 point
Thread Length: 34mm from bottom of bolt
Washer: Captive Flat 2mm thick, 17mm OD.

Head Bolt Holes in Block
Total Depth in Block: 41mm from deck to bottom
Thread Depth in Block: 35mm which starts ~6mm below deck

Head Bolt Holes in Head
Top of Head: 10.4mm OD.
Bottom of Head: 13mm OD.
Head Thickness (with reference to head bolt mounting): 61.5mm
Bolt Head / Washer Area Available on Head: Exactly 17mm OD as per OEM Bolt Washer

Main Bolts
Quantity: 10
Size: M10-1.5 X 70
Head: 14mm AF Hex
Thread Length: 32mm from bottom of bolt
Washer: Captive Flat 2mm thick, 19mm OD.

Main Caps
Cap Height: 45.0mm
Cap Width: 22.0mm
Hole Size: 10.4mm OD.
Bolt Head / Washer Area Available on Cap: 19mm as per OEM Bolt Washer

Main Bolt Holes in Block
Total Depth in Block: 34.6mm from deck to bottom
Thread Depth in Block: 24mm which starts ~4mm below deck.

Flywheel to Crankshaft Bolts
Quantity: 6
Size: M10-1.25 X 18.5
Head: 17mm AF Hex
Thread Depth: 18.5mm
Washer: None

Pressure Plate to Flywheel Bolts
Quantity: 6
Size: M8-1.25 x 16.5
Head: 12mm AF Hex
Thread Depth: 12mm from bottom of bolt - (No thread on top 4.5mm where captive washer sits)
Washer: Captive Spring 1.2mm thick, 13mm OD.

ARP recommends these part numbers for the mains and head bolts.

Quote
Hey Michael,
 
When you are ready, I found some studs that will work for you.
(on the stud for the Main, we do have longer ones for the main girdle)
 
Head stud:
#AM4.600-1LB
1 of thread length on both ends
Thread pitch -1.5 on one end and -1.25 on the other end.
4.600 OAL
10MM
8740 Chrome moly- material
 
Main stud:
#AM2.725-2B
.650 thread length on one end and 1.000 on the other.
Thread pitch -1.5 on one end and -1.25 on the other end.
2.725 OAL
10MM
ARP2000 -material


 
Thx , Steve
 
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nagtrainer

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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2015, 08:19:43 AM »

Here is a some useful links for back yard engine builders..

Claying the pistons for valve clearance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX7-SjKygXU

How to CC your head:

http://www.yarchive.net/car/compression_ratio_measure.html

http://www.totallytriumph.net/spitfire/skimming_your_head.shtml
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 06:33:43 AM by nagtrainer »
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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2015, 09:28:53 PM »

Mike, I lot of your links are dead or misdirect you else where. Only had the yarchive give and thing of some use. Heck, the first one asked me if I wanted to buy the site domain or search the ad's.
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nagtrainer

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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2015, 06:29:19 AM »

Crap... OK, Ill edit them out.. they were older links, and you're right I wish I did archive the articles.
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nagtrainer

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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2015, 12:53:25 PM »

Ok  for those wanting to have a valve job done, and the shop says parts aren't available.. well I found this company out in Tennessee..

[url]Qualcast.net[/[url]

Here is all the specs and part numbers for the 1.3L and 1.6L both 16V and 8V as well as the DOHC 1.3

Application   GM, SUZ 1.6L SOHC 16V Exh
Head Dia   0.986
Length   3.147
Stem Dia   0.2144
Wafer Tip   Yes
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.2250


SPECIFICATIONS
Application   SUZ 1.3L DOHC 16V Exh
Head Dia   0.944
Length   4.121
Stem Dia   0.2143
Wafer Tip   No
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.2010

Application   SUZ 1.3L DOHC 16V Int
Head Dia   1.142
Length   4.150
Stem Dia   0.2153
Wafer Tip   No
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.2010


Application   GM, SUZ 1.6L SOHC 16V Int
Head Dia   1.149
Length   3.630
Stem Dia   0.2154
Wafer Tip   No
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.2220

8 valve motors

Application   GM, SUZ 1.0L, 1.3L Int
Head Dia   1.417
Length   4.550
Stem Dia   0.2738
Wafer Tip   No
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.3080


Application   SUZ 1.3L SOHC Exh
Head Dia   1.181
Length   4.509
Stem Dia   0.2736
Wafer Tip   Yes
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.3067

1.6L

Application   GM, SUZ 1.6L SOHC 16V Int
Head Dia   1.149
Length   3.630
Stem Dia   0.2154
Wafer Tip   No
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.2220

Application   GM, SUZ 1.6L SOHC 16V Exh
Head Dia   0.986
Length   3.147
Stem Dia   0.2144
Wafer Tip   Yes
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.2250

Application   GM, SUZ 1.6L SOHC 8V Int
Head Dia   1.441
Length   4.550
Stem Dia   0.2744
Wafer Tip   No
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.3110


Application   GM, SUZ 1.6L SOHC 8V Exh
Head Dia   1.278
Length   4.506
Stem Dia   0.2736
Wafer Tip   Yes
Chrome Plated   Yes
Stem Type   SG
Seat Angle   45
Tip To Groove   0.3031

NOw next will be the valve springs.. aftermarket valve springs aren't as hard as people think.. it just takes time to go through the catalogs as I have done.

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nagtrainer

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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2015, 10:36:32 AM »

hear are the flywheel specs for a sammy G13A and a late model Samurai G13B

167602

Suzuki Samurai (1989-1995)
Suzuki Sidekick (1989)
Dual-Mass or Solid: Solid
Flywheel Weight (Pounds): 13.6 lbs
Flywheel Step (Inches): -0.09''
PP Bolt Circle (Inches): 8.858''
Dowel Pin Size (Inches): 0.314''
Flat or Step: Step
Pressure Plate Bolt Pattern: 6 HOLES EQUALLY SPACED
Dowel Pin Location: DOWEL PIN NEXT TO BOLT HOLE
Crank Center Hole Dia (Inches): 1.181''
Crank Mating Surface to PP Mounting Surface (Inches): 0.83''
Crank Bolt Circle Diameter (Inches): 2.047''
Number of Crank Holes: 2.047
Crank Bolt Hole Size (Inches): 0.42''
Counter Bore Diameter (PP) (Inches): 5.05''
Counter Bore Depth (Inches): 0.31''
Pressure Plate Bolt Hole thread size (Metric or Inches): M8 X 1.25
Number of Teeth: 100
Ring Gear Outside Diameter (Inches): 10.102''
Ring Gear Inside Diameter (Inches): 8.858''

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nagtrainer

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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2015, 08:52:58 PM »

More tech specs

Stock cam profile are as follows..

Lift/Duration at .050"

85-87 1.0/3cyl 330L /192D
89-01 1.0/3cyl 330 /198
GT Int 295L/192D Ex295L /198D
Cultus In 305/L192 Ex305/D198
1.3 8V 330L/192D
1.3 16V SOHC 308L/184D
1.6 8V 356L/202D
1.6 16V In 308L/192D Ex308L/198D

Here is John Foreign engines specs for is RV2

272 duration .412 lift

Insky I have a PDF of the Cam card in the wife's but here is her's

266 duration .207" lift at the cam has a 101 lobe center.

Calmini (Cal Crappy) they advertise this one.. I tried it a long time ago, and it really didn't work as well as I liked. Stock carb syndrome. was told it's for a weber set up or something of that line..

288 duration/ 342 lift

I also have that card still as well.

There is a guy on Team swift that offers some of the best selections of cams so far for any G series engine. ThreeTech has these following from his selection.
85-94 1.3/1.6 8V
358/212
375/216
395/226
420/254
448/240

And for the SOCH 16V
340/200
355/204
365/210

He also claim to have developed this one, but It appeared after a conversation with him, Brian Crower, and myself. I ran this one in two engines one in a Swift, and one in the Pumkin. Man it was a screamer. we used a 106 lobe center. but a 108 would be better for the not so screamer types.

206@ .050 intake .370" lift
210@ .050 Exhaust .370"lift

I still have to look up others. but these are the ones I directly know about. If you know of a cam please tell me about it.

If asked I can get it ground from Crower still.
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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2015, 08:05:40 AM »

I was Looking through some old circle track engine stuff, and came across this from Comp cams. I think it will explain LSA (lobe Separation Angle) on cams, and how to choose the best one for the application. When I race roundy round, I alway used a 246 beast cam with a 106 lsa.  I raced against people who ran 108 and 110, and some who ran 104. the 104 guys had no corner power, and the 108, and 110 guys cooked the right rear all the time.


So here is a link,

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/FAQ/LSAproperties.asp

ANd this is the summary of the page.

EFFECTS OF CHANGING LOBE SEPERATION ANGLE (LSA)

Tighten (smaller LSA number)       Widen (larger LSA number)
Moves Torque to Lower RPM               Raise Torque to Higher RPM
Increases Maximum Torque               Reduces Maximum Torque
Narrow Power band                          Broadens Power Band
Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure          Reduce Maximum Cylinder Pressure
Increase Chance of Engine Knock        Decrease Chance of Engine Knock
Increase Cranking Compression          Decrease Cranking Compression
Increase Effective Compression          Decrease Effective Compression
Idle Vacuum is Reduced                    Id le Vacuum is Increased
Idle Quality Suffers                          Idle Quality Improves
Open Valve-Overlap Increases           Open Valve-Overlap Decreases
Closed Valve-Overlap Increases         Closed Valve-Overlap Decreases
Natural EGR Effect Increases             Natural EGR Effect is Reduced
Decreases Piston-to-Valve Clearance  Increases Piston-to-Valve Clearance
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Re: Zuk Specs and Frankenstein engines, what fits what..
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2018, 02:25:47 PM »

PM me
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